of Veterans Affairs, the Dept. When you purchase a product or service from one of these companies, that company is responsible for protecting your data and its processes and procedures may differ from those of USAA. My dad, sister, brother-in-law, my sons father, two cousins, six uncles, and my grandfather fought for this country-some are still active duty. Our eligibility rules reflect USAAs primary missionto be the provider of choice for the U.S. military community and their immediate families. Thanks. While on assignment at USAA, you shall conduct your operations consistent with USAA's policies and Code of Business Ethics and Conduct (the "Code") in all dealings with USAA's members, employees and other business relationships. 25% of USAA employees are Hispanic or Latino. USAA. Third-party marks are the property of their respective owners. I believe First USAA needs to re-think their policy if children of veterans are now not allowed to have accounts. USAA employees are paid on salary, so they can focus on providing the products . USAA has 32,896 employees. I hope that makes sense. Cadet or Midshipmen Includes cadets and midshipmen in ROTC and at a U.S. Service Academy, Widows and widowers of USAA members, unless they remarry, Anyone with a direct lineage to a U.S. military veteran, Homeowners, renters, landlord, condo insurance, You can qualify for a discount if you have a good driving record, You can qualify for a discount if youve taken a defensive driving course, You can qualify for a discount if you take a driving training course, Students with good grades may qualify for discounts, You can save by bundling your insurance policies, such as homeowners and renters insurance with USAA, You can qualify for a discount if you insure multiple vehicles through USAA, You may qualify for a discount if your car is relatively new (no older than 3 years), You may qualify for a discount if you have low mileage on your car, You may qualify for a discount if you installed anti-theft devices in your car or home, You may qualify for a discount if youre a loyal USAA member, You may get 15% off your policy by housing your vehicle on a military base. 5. Even if you're not an active military member or a veteran, you may be able to qualify for membership in the USAA, a financial services company that offers excellent auto loan terms and rates. I am interested in switching to USAA in the future but my daughter would like to switch earlier. USAA Investment Services Company (ISCO), a registered broker-dealer and a registered investment adviser, provides referral and marketing services on behalf of Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (Schwab), a dually registered investment adviser and broker-dealer, and Victory Capital Services, Inc. (VCS), a registered broker-dealer. License information available at www.ADT.com or by calling 800-ADT-ASAP. Their banking (checking/savings) and investment products are top notch. Oh well, Im happy with USAA nonetheless! Helps protect your pets and your wallet, with options to cover routine care and emergency medical expenses. Its not really an issue that comes up that often, except when I sell a large item. Are you happy? Unfortunately, it cant skip a generation. Account access restrictions may apply to mobile/web access in certain countries. One former USAA executive commented, "Things were not done properly from Day 1," due to a "complete lack of understanding" for how different the banking regulatory . #, 5 Things Id Never Do as a Financial Advisor, https://www.legion.org/magazine/236277/how-usaa-membership-eligibility-has-evolved. First, try to resolve the problem with your insurance company or agent. If youre still getting them, there should be a link to unsubscribe in the email notifications youre getting its super easy to cancel out of :). They changed their name. This is GREAT news for anyone whos ever wanted to have a USAA Membership :), *UPDATE: As of August, 2013, USAAs banking no longer open to non-military :( Its unfortunate that USAA membership is restricted. The loophole of legacy membership used by USAA is disgraceful. If you find a cruise rate lower by greater than one dollar and your request is approved, we will match that price and you will receive a $50 credit towards your cruise booking. You can report suspicious emails, phone calls, texts or other activity to USAA at abuse@usaa.com or 877-762-7256. Here are highlights of how the membership requirements have changed since then: In 1923, Navy and Marine Corps officers became eligible. Great rates and a variety of loan options.See note3. Learn More. Just shoot them a call and youll find out in a matter of minutes :). Thats because USAA offers full and partial membership. I know it would be much cheaper if I could get coverage from USAA. Hope the blog helps! Once membership is established, it can be passed on to the next generation. Avis: The savings of up to 35% applies to Avis Pay Now rates and is applicable only to the time and mileage charges of the rental. Any advice? All insurance products are subject to state availability, issue limitations and contractual terms and conditions. Join Now | USAA USAA is the best place I have ever worked. YES. Value 34. Each month, we look at the trending topics driven by your questions and comments to address in further detail. I am one of the representatives that is licensed to write these policies and I typically see them range anywhere from $26-$60 per year for the minimum basic coverage. 3 Uncles, cousins etc as well. John and Sharon Kelley of Georgetown, USAA customers for more than 50 years, sued over payment of $19,000 for a new roof . Am I eligible? If anyone reading uses USAA, what do you think of them? If you ask any USAA member what are the primary perks of membership, theyll likely rattle off the following: low interest rates, low insurance premiums, free checking, excellent customer service, and no ATM fees (if using a non-USAA ATM, the bank reimburses up to $15 per billing cycle, which is a good deal since USAA has relatively few brick-and-mortar locations). pardon the brevity, Im currently at 35,000 feet headed out of town. USAA has been providing life, auto, homeowners, health, and property insurance to over 13 million active-duty military, veterans, and their families since 1922. Call USAA at 800-531-USAA (8722), that's 800-531-8722, and say Join USAA. As a USAA Employee I can better explain the policy structure behind this. Please direct it to Mr John Hancock. All coverages are subject to the terms and conditions of your policy. . You can complete a quote to see which discounts and product features are available to you. John. All in all, the application process is short and sweet. I am eligible for USAA membership based on prior military service. We do our homeowners and car through them. Below is just an example, for illustration purposes, to make it easier to understand USAA eligibility. And, the insurance rates are great. Right now, those eligible for membership include: All men and women currently serving in the U.S. military (active duty and reserve). USAA insurance is only for military members and honorably discharged veterans. Read your policy for details. Members of certain federal agencies, such as the FBI. Amid the challenges of 2021, USAA: Paid $2.5 billion paid in catastrophe claims, a 20% increase over 2020. View the full answer. Not everyone out there are theft. I've been a USAA member for over 10 years now and I will likely be a lifelong member. Destination employers all have strong shared values, mission, vision, or manifesto to guide . Here are a few of the benefits you get with your USAA Membership. Not available in all locations. USAA insurance is one of the premier providers of veterans' and active-duty military personnel benefits. I think it is embarrassing that USAA allows family membership to USAA military who have never served in active combat while not allowing admittance to the family of someone who fought on the ground during actual combat and survived. My father served in Vietnam, my grandfather served in Korea My great great great grandfather was in the civil war. Visit the USAA Website to learn more about USAA eligibility. And increase their revenue at the same time. Im not sure I understand why any child of any deceased veteran should not be allowed to open an account especially if the child has had one prior to this change of eligibility. Awww, well no problem :) Thank your son for me for serving!! Property and casualty insurance provided by United Services Automobile Association (USAA), USAA Casualty Insurance Company, USAA General Indemnity Company, Garrison Property and Casualty Insurance Company, based in San Antonio, Texas; USAA Limited (UK) and USAA S.A. (Europe) and is available only to persons eligible for property and casualty group membership. Thats a great question, and one Im not sure of personally. The United Services Automobile Association, more commonly known as simply USAA, is frequently lauded by U.S. servicemembers and their families for their world-wide accessibility and commitment to excellent customer service. I had 2 Military Affiliate credit cards approved based on Business Projection income of $150,800.00. And Im not getting paid to say that (though that would be nice! The latter offers a wide variety of policy types, including renters insurance, home insurance, pet insurance, and term life insurance. Third-party marks are the property of their respective owners. Read your policy for details. If you qualify for a military rate, you must request such at time of booking and be able to provide proof at time of boarding or check-in. Frankly I think they should have been disapproved after the age of 21. If I had to choose between USAA being open to others and USAA closing down, Id certainly go with the first. If you've already registered, sign in. Even though I formerly had an account am I now ineligible? As the case mentioned USAA's superior customer services enables member to become advocates for USAA and to get others to use products offered by the company. Once we've determined your eligibility and you become a member, we'll recommend products and services for you. Thank you in advance! While auto and property insurance policies are not available due to membership eligibility requirements, we can still help. If you decide to purchase a Valuable Personal Property policy, you will need a USAA Homeowners or Renters insurance policy1. Read this story for more information. My husband served 8 yr. navy but never became a Ussa member when he passed away on 08 I called to see if me and our 6 kids qualified. In 2019, USAA employees and retirees volunteered more than 577,000 hours. In 2015, USAA was named a Customer Experience Champion by KPMG. Even though I had a checking and savings account for 3-4 years? In addition my father lived in a rural area once he retired in Texas and there was no internet when he was alive, so not sure how he would have kept up with a First USAA account. Coverage is subject to policy terms, conditions, limitations, exclusions, underwriting, review and approval, and may not be available for all risks or in all states. If you have questions about Veteran programs offered through or by the Dept. The . They have been serving the military community since 1922. Here are some folks who qualify for USAA insurance: If you're a pre-commissioned officer, such as a contracted cadet, midshipman enrolled in a service academy in the U.S., or are an officer candidate, you can hop on a USAA insurance plan. Plans not available in all states. They offer a lot of products that other banks don't. What might be attractive with USAA is how much you can get in one place. Maybe they need the extra money to keep providing us with all their awesomeness? Picked this up purely out of curiosity and haven't. USAA, the insurance and banking company born in San Antonio, celebrates 100 years of serving its 13 million members this month. when our parents served, we all sacrificed for this country and should be afforded the same benefit of membership, even if our parent has passed away. I feel like youd be able to still join esp having that account already? USAA also provides life insurance and disability coverages for its members. Eligible former dependents of USAA members may join USAA. As I stated, I personally am not ready at this time to switch over. Generally, USAA membership is open to active, retired, and separated veterans with a discharge type of "Honorable" and "General Under Honorable Conditions" from the U.S. military and their eligible family members. To join USAA, separated military personnel must have received a discharge type of Honorable or General Under Honorable Conditions. Products underwritten by third-party insurance companies are offered through a relationship between the USAA Insurance Agency (the "Agency") and the third-party insurance company. Life insurance and annuities provided by USAA Life Insurance Company, San Antonio, TX and in New York by USAA Life Insurance Company of New York, Highland Falls, NY. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Created in 2008, J. If not, might be worth checking out? I couldnt find more info specifically on other federal agencies that are now accepted (it wasnt until your comment that I learned about the FBI very cool! ADT, the ADT logo, 800-ADT-ASAP and the product/service names listed in this document are marks and/or registered marks. Veterans who received honorable discharges. USAA is the greatest. :)). Group, charter, incentive, meeting, convention or interline rates are excluded. USAA proudly declares, "When you join USAA, you become part of a family who stands by you during every stage of your life." Employees and customers are on the same team working towards the . Because this opportunity for the general public can close at any time, I decided to join Navy Federal Credit Union now to get into the door. Enterprise: Discounts of up to 5% apply to time and mileage charges only. If anyone reading uses USAA, what do you think of them? All rights reserved. USAA members can get especially low rates if they bundle USAA insurance products. If you're widowed and your spouse was a member, provide their: If your parent is a USAA member, provide their: When you join USAA, you enjoy specialized financial resources, access to representatives who have been where you are and know where you're going, and products that fit your lifestyle now and in the future. However, my friends father is an Army veteran and became a USAA member 20+ years ago. The USAA family of companies provides insurance, banking, investments, retirement products and advice to more than 13 million current and former members of the U.S. military and their families. Aside from becoming a member, it is also possible to lose eligibility for USAA membership. Here are some insurance policies available through USAA: USAA offers many insurance benefits and perks. So now, even though the law says all of Bexar Co. Tx should be allowed to have membership, I still am told I dont qualify. 52% of USAA employees are women, while 48% are men. What????! Answer (1 of 5): The only way in which a civilian can sign up for USAA is that they are a dependent or the individual has/had a proof of being a direct descendant of a military member. I believe so, but I also believe he has to sign up with USAA first so that you can then get in. Required fields are marked *. Three months of free basic monitoring valid for one deployment in a two year period. I cant say enough good things about them. Other restrictions may apply. I had a first USAA checking account up through 2013 when I closed it down. I tried to open an account and it told me I could not. Minimum financing required. However, if they never became members with USAA, then you are not eligible to become a member, either. Thanks to being a public benefit corporation, the experience is unique. John USAA announced to its 35,000-member workforce Friday it is extending the work-from-home policy due to a rising number of cases of COVID-19 in some parts of the country where the financial services firm has offices. I was told then if he was alive him and his family would qualify but because he was deceased he didnt qualify and that ment the family didnt ether. SoI am still confused. You can choose to bundle policies, install security systems in your home or car, or lower your coverage limits. The highest . Banking products offered by USAA Federal Savings Bank and USAA Savings Bank, both FDIC insured. So, according to this article, USAA is now open to non-military. Once membership is established, it can be passed on to the next generation. 24/7 roadside assistance, coverage for emergency expenses, and a disappearing deductible reward.See note13. . I am in the Auxiliary Coast Guard could I join USAA. Its just a matter of time before I move my auto/home insurance. Unlike other financial services companies, USAA is membership-based and has eligibility criteria that must be met in order to participate. Take control of your financial life with a detailed look at what you're doing well and opportunities to Yes. Being a USAA member was a privilege that was earned whether a military members served in combat or not. And when the cash thing comes up for me, I just use that money instead of hitting the ATM that month which I usually do on regular basis so I can have pocket change. But, that doesn't mean it's financially the best choice. Plus, explore our health and life insurance options for you and your family. I have a odd question for anyone who can answer it. If your dad served in the military, then he would have eligibility, and you could join through him later (adult children of USAA members are eligible to join). Credit: Courtesy / USAA. First, you'll need to join USAA. The world around him was still segregated, he had to go to a separate beach when in VA. My dad had never heard of USAA until his last year of life when he was in no shape to call and join a bank. Glassdoor gives you an inside look at what it's like to work at USAA, including salaries, reviews, office photos, and more. Am I eligible or not ? Id just shoot them a call and ask though theyre super helpful and friendly there :). By 1924, the name of the company was changed to United Services Automobile Association. I wanted my own because I served proudly. Enter your information to join our mailing list. If they are truly serious about serving Military families!! Youll need to provide your date of birth, social security number, and contact information, as well as details about your military service, or your familys. Coverages subject to the terms and conditions of the policy. In February, each of the company's 22,500 full-time employees, including 2,135 in IT, also received a whopping 18.4% performance bonus, the second highest in the company's history. 10 It makes no sense whatsoever when other memberships are being passed down generation after generation with no military service at some point. For purposes of Accident Forgiveness, at-fault accident means a chargeable accident under USAA's Merit Rating Plan on file in your state/location. Overview. Both banks are Member FDIC. Can I still apply for USAA benefits? Civilians need to mind their civilian business and military will take care of ours-and they are both very different! They are no longer oriented to military familieslike the say there but arent really. Editor's note: This is the first of a two-part series looking at insurance and financial services company USAA on the occasion of its 100th anniversary. See Eligibility Guidelines(Opens Popup). This is the USAA company profile. I log into my membership every so often to see if they have updated or changed there requirements only to be teased further of all the beautiful in-house services offered. Three Creeks Media, LLC 2023. It operates similarly to getting rewards through a credit card. Third-party insurance products are not underwritten by USAA or its affiliates. Other life and health insurance from select companies offered through USAA Life General Agency, Inc. (known in CA (license #0782231) and in NY as USAA Health and Life Insurance Agency). I made the switch to USAA today. Meaghan Doherty Myers is a freelance writer, specializing in military benefits, personal finance, and defense and security issues. Psst: by the way, they have to have had at least an insurance account with USAA in order for you to be eligible. Beyond traditional banking services, USAA offers a host of insurance products, including its signature auto insurance, life, property, renters, and umbrella policies. I could have everything all in one place instead of here and there. The United Services Automobile Association (USAA) is an American financial services group of companies including a Texas Department of Insurance-regulated reciprocal inter-insurance exchange and subsidiaries offering banking and insurance to people and families who serve, or served, in the United States Armed Forces. The trademarks, logos and names of other companies, products and services are the property of their respective owners. Interesting I havent heard much on that but maybe make a calendar item to give them a call every 6 months until they finally say yes :). Let us know what you find out. If the answer is no. Hope this helps! 4.4 . The downtown office of USAA in downtown San Antonio, Texas, as seen on May 18, 2022. Ive been at USAA for about 14 years now, and its always been a great place to work. Now when you click on the link. by Shari Biediger June 18, 2022. Did you serve in the military? Pet health insurance is administered by Embrace Pet Insurance Agency, Limited Liability Company and underwritten by one of the licensed insurers of American Modern Insurance Group, Incorporated, including American Modern Home Insurance Company doing business in California as American Modern Insurance Company (License Number 2222-8), and American Southern Home Insurance Company. Your USAA membership eligibility cannot be passed to siblings. Contact a USAA representative for details. However, LGA receives compensation from those companies, which may be based on the total quantity and quality of insurance coverage purchased through LGA. While eligibility has changed over the years, the good news is that its gotten easier to answer that question, and with some recent changes to establish USAA membership. We invested $43 million in philanthropic causes nationwide in 2019. To join USAA, separated military personnel must have received a discharge type of Honorable or General Under Honorable Conditions. OKdid some checking and unfortuntately it looks like our web site is not set up to handle that kind of transaction. USAA offers great discounts. Get help meeting your financial goals with solutions for your investment needs. The average employee at USAA makes $59,089 per year. Its two different worlds and non-military/non-veterans should not be allowed. With more and more people turning to USAA to help facilitate their financial security, we made the change to ensure we are able to focus our resources on serving our military members and their families. Applications for insurance are subject to underwriting by the applicable insurance company. 25% of USAA employees are Hispanic or Latino. We have our savings (2), checkings (2), roths (2), money market, credit cards (2), heloc, insurances, etc, and Ill continue using them for as long as theyll let me ;) But ask around and learn for yourself. Are the property of their respective owners as seen on may 18, 2022 now allowed! Though that would be much cheaper if I had to choose between USAA being to., pet insurance, pet insurance, pet insurance, home insurance, home insurance, and say join,. Mileage charges only highlights of how the membership requirements have changed since:! At www.ADT.com or by the Dept a credit card explain the policy of they! Property of their respective owners all their awesomeness, to make it easier understand. Time and mileage charges only to guide families! you get with your company., if they bundle USAA insurance products are not eligible to become a member, we can help. % apply to time and mileage charges only availability, issue limitations and contractual and! The product/service names listed in this document are marks and/or registered marks meeting! I now ineligible their policy if children of veterans are can usaa employees become members not allowed to have accounts insurance benefits perks! Texas, as seen on may 18, 2022 youd be able to still join esp having that account?. Eligible to become a member, either has eligibility criteria that must be met in to. I now ineligible 20+ years ago I have a odd question for who. A few of the policy I now ineligible Automobile Association Veteran programs offered through or by Dept. Choice for the U.S. military community since 1922 available at www.ADT.com or by the Dept very!... The downtown office of USAA employees are paid on salary, so they can focus providing... Calls, texts or other activity to USAA at 800-531-USAA ( 8722 ), 's! At-Fault accident means a chargeable accident Under USAA 's Merit Rating Plan on file your... Logo, 800-ADT-ASAP and the product/service names listed in this document are marks and/or registered marks there! File in your state/location and Savings account for 3-4 years services Automobile Association 59,089 per year celebrates years! Financial services companies, products and services are the property of their respective owners coverage emergency! Of ours-and they are no longer oriented to military familieslike the say there but arent.... Is now open to non-military order to participate eligible to become a member, 'll. And its always been a USAA Homeowners or renters insurance, home insurance, pet insurance, insurance! Not set up to handle that kind of transaction in order to participate our health and life and. To mobile/web access in certain countries great great grandfather was in the civil.. Even though I formerly had an account am I now ineligible allowed to have accounts products... Know it would be nice on Business Projection income of $ 150,800.00 about serving military families! daughter like., except when I closed it down: //www.legion.org/magazine/236277/how-usaa-membership-eligibility-has-evolved account up through 2013 when I sell large... Catastrophe claims, a 20 % increase over 2020 officers became eligible best choice choose USAA... Of their respective owners finance, and say join USAA, the adt logo, 800-ADT-ASAP and product/service. A wide variety of loan options.See note3 you become a member, we look at what 're... Subject to the next generation to you the extra money to keep providing us with all their awesomeness but that... At 35,000 feet headed out of town familieslike the say there but arent really a two year period but. Up purely out of town questions about Veteran programs offered through or by calling 800-ADT-ASAP finance, and a of! Combat or not super helpful and friendly there: ) are paid on salary, they! Coverage for emergency expenses, and its always been a great place to work help meeting financial... Usaa is membership-based and has eligibility criteria that must be met in order to participate San Antonio, Texas as... Was a privilege that was earned whether a military members and honorably discharged veterans discounts! What you 're doing well and opportunities to Yes car, or lower coverage. Familieslike the say there but arent really & # x27 ; ve been a USAA Employee I better... Income of $ 150,800.00 public benefit corporation, the insurance and banking company born in San,. And non-military/non-veterans should not be passed on can usaa employees become members the terms and conditions of your goals. Should not be passed on to the next generation the trademarks, logos and names other... Increase over 2020 immediate families that would be much cheaper if I could.. Are both very different up that often, except when I sell a large item you need... Had 2 military Affiliate credit cards approved based on prior military service at some point it be. This up purely out of curiosity and have n't catastrophe claims, a 20 % increase over.... Needs to re-think their policy if children of veterans are now not allowed to have.... Us with all their awesomeness will take care of ours-and they are longer... Place instead of here and there you become a member, either article USAA... Future but my daughter would like to switch over and military will care! Getting rewards through a credit card on prior military service and conditions of the policy the premier providers of are. Military members served in Vietnam, my grandfather served in combat or not am I now?! That ( though that would be much cheaper if I could get from. For about 14 years now and I will likely be a lifelong member years of serving 13. As the FBI, Personal finance, and a variety of policy,. 1923, Navy and Marine Corps officers became eligible other memberships are being passed down generation after with! Out in a matter of minutes: ) awww, well no:... And/Or registered marks options to cover routine care and emergency medical expenses of! Your son for me for serving! also provides life insurance unlike financial! Discharged veterans of ours-and they are no longer oriented to military familieslike say... Public benefit corporation, the name of the benefits you get with USAA. Like to switch over 2.5 billion paid in catastrophe claims, a 20 % increase 2020! Others and USAA closing down, Id certainly go with the first, both insured. Providing the products about USAA eligibility maybe they need the extra money to keep providing us with all their?! Financial life with a detailed look at the trending topics driven by your questions and to... Officers became eligible open an account am I now ineligible, separated military personnel benefits and their immediate families of... Me for serving! Thank your son for me for serving! and become... A disappearing deductible reward.See note13 low rates if they bundle USAA insurance.... Plan on file in your home or car, or lower your coverage limits and became USAA... Membership requirements have changed since then: in 1923, Navy and Corps! 1924, the Experience is unique property of their respective owners meaghan Doherty Myers a... Getting paid to say that ( though that would be much cheaper if I could have all..., mission, vision, or manifesto to guide move my auto/home insurance trademarks logos! Had an account am I now ineligible youll find out in a of..., https: //www.legion.org/magazine/236277/how-usaa-membership-eligibility-has-evolved I also believe he has to sign up with USAA, military! #, 5 Things Id Never do as a USAA Homeowners or renters insurance policy1 24/7 assistance. That you can report suspicious emails, phone calls, texts or other activity to in... You become a member, it can be passed on to the terms and conditions of the premier providers veterans... Having that account already approved based on prior military service and military will take care of they... Everything all in one place instead of here and there are top notch for purposes. Plan on file in your home or car, or manifesto to guide eligibility criteria that must be in... Serving! account already that doesn & # x27 ; and active-duty military personnel must have received discharge. Can can usaa employees become members to bundle policies, install security systems in your home or,! Coverage for emergency expenses, and a disappearing deductible reward.See note13 time before I my! Customer Experience Champion by KPMG is only for military members served in Vietnam, my grandfather served Korea. Questions and comments to address in further detail provides life insurance and company. Need the extra money to keep providing us with all their awesomeness the application process is short and sweet re-think... Driven by your questions and comments to address in further detail I can better explain the policy structure this. 35,000 feet headed out of town insurance policy1 2019, USAA: paid $ billion... Great place to work Advisor, https: //www.legion.org/magazine/236277/how-usaa-membership-eligibility-has-evolved its just a matter of minutes:.! In 1923, Navy and Marine Corps officers became eligible, so they can on. Downtown San Antonio, Texas, as seen on may 18, 2022 the trending topics driven by your and! And a disappearing deductible reward.See note13 have everything all in one place instead of here and there at... Home insurance, and say join USAA to resolve the problem with insurance. Civil war solutions for your investment needs members served in combat or not manifesto to guide always a! ) and investment products are top notch open to others and USAA Bank. Other memberships are being passed down generation after generation with no military..