How does importing new labour from West Africa solve the food shortage in the West Indies? Latin America for instance. ), Who is fundamentally right about reparations for slavery? "I don't know why this generation has a different relationship with the past, goes to the past, expecting and looking for different things to earlier generations, but that's really is my observation about them," he says adding the internet has played a huge part. Presumably there were normal times when food was cheap that you fed your workers and didnt seek to replace them in the way Olusoga means. It was such a brilliantly organised programme of mass protest that slavery was declared abolished in 1833: 46,000 slave owners were given 20m in compensation (17bn in todays money), the largest payout in British history and 40 per cent of all government spending that year. MyBurningEars August 30, 2020 at 3:31 pm Deliberately shipping that many people that far in order to participate in a newly-created society whose economic system was designed, pretty much from the ground up, around slave labour?, True that unlike certain other examples of slavery, you werent likely to be killed as part of a religious sacrifice or as part of your owners funeral., But there have been other societies with slavery where slaves had more autonomy and a greater chance of buying their freedom.. I assume these were usually killed before Europeans turned up and bought them. That needs to change, The autonomous future is nearly here with Wejo, The need to grow Londons EV infrastructure at speed and scale, From royal trumpeter to chief diver, Miranda Kaufmann uncovers the Africans of Tudor Britain, The big consultancy con, with Mariana Mazzucato, The rise and fall of Nicola Sturgeon Audio Long Reads, Facility / Grounds Management and Maintenance, HR, Training and Organisational Development, Information and Communications Technology, Information Services, Statistics, Records, Archives, Infrastructure Management - Transport, Utilities, Science and Technical Research and Development. If the alternative was that they were killed? "The small minority whose history had been airbrushed out of the national story recovered that history with the help of their allies and then broadcast it, spread it into our national conversation and they did that within the space of half a century. Tull played professional football for Northampton but instead of signing up for Glasgow Rangers, he enlisted. It can be withdrawn. . Slavery didnt last much longer for various reasons, fizzled out in a century or so, but we have the records to show it was still part of the system after twenty years of Norman rule: https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/domesday/world-of-domesday/order.htm. Theres no point pretending Europeans who profited from either the transatlantic slave trade or the use of slave labour in the Americas were somehow doing a favour to the slaves involved. In the UK its not white people enslaving blacks anymore, but Asians enslaving other Asians, as in Leicesters clothing sweatshops. A covering letter would be a courtesy but probably not a necessity. "They do not want British history to be a catalogue of heroes and victories and glorious chapters," he says. Like the Nigerian slavers who enslaved and sold the slaves, you mean? There is no reason to think one system was more or less brutal than the other. Duke University professor, William Darity Jr, and writer, Kirsten Mullen, jointly published a report for The Roosevelt Institute, an American liberal think tank, laying out a case for slavery reparations. This ignorant fellow should study historical facts, rather than believing and repeating lies and half-truths. Very often shaped by the political, technological and economic forces of the times if the Western way of life had remained utterly dependent on Roman-style slavery, Im not sure wed ever have abolished it even amongst our own inhabitants. In the USA? Giles Terera, the Olivier award-winning British performer who starred in the popular theatre production Hamilton, has recently staged a play called the Meaning of Zong about the massacre of 132 enslaved Africans aboard the slave ship Zong in 1781 and the impact it had on Equiano. Shouldnt matter whether some long-dead relative fought long ago for or against (not at all to disparage your ancestors GC, who all sound very sound) in terms of whether somethings your fault. You may concede a point here, a point there. David Olusoga meets Janice Haber and her family, the descendents of Jewish . Oh man. I assume he is not very bright and Race Hustling is very lucrative. So this race baiter can try his guilt trip on someone else. Cest de la trs bonne dialectique conomique. From Roots. Just means they werent alone in being in the wrong. Get back to us when youve developed your historicalguiltometer. Different people can argue the toss from different viewpoints and perspectives but in many ways their arguments pass each other like ships in the night, because they havent all got nobodys got an absolute frame of reference to judge things with respect to. Re putting the argument for paedophilia they actually gave Gide the Nobel prize for literature didnt they? Theres an argument about judging people by the standard of their times, though even in the 1500s moral and religious objections to the slave trade had been made and the rationale of crimes against humanity is that some things are so abhorrent they could never truly be legal no matter what moral code the perpetrators justified themselves with. I think it's an astonishing achievement.". His book is a product of that childhood terror, and partly an exploration of his condition as a black Briton. people like Olusoga would have to pay their share of the greatly increased taxes Not to say it was nice.. The strongest case I can see against reparations is not fundamentally a legal one but perhaps one degree abstracted the law if we can litigate that, we can litigate a heck of a lot of stuff from centuries past, tie our legal systems up in knots with no obvious limits in sight. So my advice would be, for his own health, STFU. My argument is that Africans were probably happily killing each other for women before the West turned up. Like I said, as a mental exercise, if I do my best good faith effort to imagine an argument for reparations, I reckon it would concern harms committed by the state (which unlike the slave traders and owners, is still about today) and an argument that it breached some alleged fundamental/universal doctrine of law so that even the states efforts to put the slave industry on a legal footing were null and void. Long after slavery ended in the British colonies, British people continued to lobby the American government to free their slaves. The good news is that Black Lives Matter may be that trigger. The economics of the slave trade may have meant that it was cheaper to work someone to death rather than allowing him a comfortable old age. How does it benefit anyone to make an issue about particular events? David Olusoga, 49, is a television presenter and historian. Thats why we get it. Surely the US has already spent much more than that on black Americans. This is nothing to do with slavery or as with black lives matter, blacks being shot, and everything to do with a shakedown of the white man. Fought to STOP southern independence. The thing we British are ancestrally responsible for is beginning and continuing to pursue the extinction of the sordid business of slavery. There is no reason to think that slavery was nicer in Africa. Wrong ?!?! One in which enslaved people suffered and even died from malnutrition, as the economics of the slave trade meant that it was cheaper, at times, to starve people and then replace them than it was to provide them with food. They are pretty much airbrushed from history, whereas the transatlantic slave trade seems to be wall-to-wall on our TV screens and in our school textbooks. Kyle Rittenhouse, unlike the rest of their sorry asses, did something. Whitey bad, give me cash? It doesnt end with the parties saying Well that was pleasantly intellectually stimulating, now lets have a nice game of cricket Youre opponents are not playing by the same rules as you are. For almost 60 years, there was impasse. Then the adult men became profitable too. Im not even saying thats a convincing argument, it has some very serious weak points, just that I reckon its a stronger one than a general appeal about current inequality. The evidence of this is that seasoned slaves, those exposed to the environment, sold for up to 50% more than new ones. A House Through Time returned to BBC Two in May for its third season, and once again is fronted by historian extraordinaire David Olusoga. In the end, wholl be proven right about the matter practically, in terms of what the outcome is and what the first drafts of history say? But maybe they did not. And the transatlantic slave trade? Read about our approach to external linking. Very little sugar on the mainland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr_Gide, Less flippantly, Western countries are not of one mind when it comes to the age of consent sex with a 14 year-old is legal in some countries, criminal in others (yes yes, paedophilia versus ephebophilia etc, you got me). But those were in those long-lost days when democrats and republicans could talk to each other and agree to disagree while both leaving the conversation a little the wiser. Hundreds of White women raped every day. By David Dabydeen (Photo By Alamy) Nineteen eighty-four was a transformative year for David Olusoga. Olusoga patterns his narrative after Fryers, starting with the North African presence in Roman Britain. Do I feel like I had anything to do it? The reason why Equiano is not a national name is because slavery is not a part of the history that we teach when it should be because I don't think you can understand the 18th century in particular but also the 19th century without reference to slavery.". Will Britain change? If we went down this route thered be goodness knows how much fun and games to be had with legal claims over the treatment of Irish by Cromwell, the clearing of the Highlands and so on, before you even get on to the globe-spanning imperial stuff. No member of my family ever owned slaves. "He was the voice of somebody who wasn't speaking about the past as a historian, but was living it. Perhaps Im a bit more culturally relativist these days, but just read it again, still absolutely awful. One sporting event that has captured your imagination I was fortunate enough to get tickets to see some of the basketball at the London 2012 Olympics, so my brother and I went to watch the GB vs. Spain game. We could just cut to the chase, and impose a reparations tax on anyone who is descended from from anyone who did something, er, wrong. Nor do I think that sugar is worse than cotton. Later his parents separated from each other when he was just two years old. Would the good professor really be so different if genealogical records could prove he had African ancestors who owned African slaves? I cant see this one surviving people being expected to dig into their pockets for a few trillion. The arguments do you want to get shaken down for several trillion?. If more African-Americans started to vote Republican and the Democrats felt they needed something radical to boost their offer, and had enough support from liberal whites and other groups to risk further losses among blue-collar whites, for example. They did not care much for adult males. The argument isnt whether historical slavery was right or wrong or who should accept responsibility for it. If Olusoga is looking for apologies or compensation for slavery, I am quite prepared to meet him, accept his apology, togehr with cash, cheque or even a postal order. In the case of slavery the answer is clear. Olusogas ancestors will have participated in the capture of sale of slaves in Nigeria. And the fact youre moved to tears by discovering for the first time a great-great-great-grandmother of yours was a prostitute single-mum with seven kids or a great-x5-uncle you had never heard of was imprisoned for murder, well, your utter lack of knowledge simply reveals how little youve been influenced by them, so youre hardly discovering a new facet of yourself at all. See, five years ago I wouldnt have written a crass comment like that, but hey, times achanging and as financially independent with some FU-money, I dont have to worry about cancellation culture, LOL. Though I dont know where wed get $12 trillion in Confederate currency. White people will take it. Had a vault for the more inflammatory pieces. Get back to us when your sin/privilege is expunged. They all get it from White people inciting violence. Pretty much everybody in the West is against slavery. Not sure how sick this makes me. Because it isnt about who you are, its about who your ancestors were. The novel became the bestselling book of 19th-century Britain; it was adapted for the theatre and generated mass-produced merchandise playing cards, jigsaws, tableware. Theres a flaw in arguments of the form frankly you should be glad I murdered your sister, since had I not done so, its quite possible though we cannot be sure that someone else would have tortured her then murdered her, which is even worse, so whos the real criminal? Which is that I still murdered your sister. Olusoga is of half Nigerian descent. It costs money to replace them and after a famine the price of slaves would rise. Olusoga unloads all sorts of characterizations. He was immersed in it. Tim may be wrong about stuff, but ..that, ultimately, makes up for his beating squirrels to death for a hobby, Tim Worstall a horrid man who is anti-minimum wage among other repugnant things Socialist News. He was born in Nigeria but arrived in the . A weekly newsletter helping you fit together the pieces of the global economic slowdown. I know there are posters on here who see stepping into their opponents perspective as a dangerous and pointless endeavour that gives undue worth to a viewpoint they despise, but purely as a mental exercise theres usually something to be said for examining your opponents strongest argument instead of their weakest. Certainly they killed them casually often for religious reasons. Just how much should Olusoga receive? But its still awful, even on a historical scale.. "They were barely known even to historians. The world has seen more slavery since its abolition than before. Davids all done. 7 years was the average working lifespan so it is said. Sugar plantations were bad. Prof Darity and Ms Mullen outline that to eliminate the existing Black-White wealth gap an allocation of between $10 trillion and $12 trillion, or about $800,000 per black household, should be paid. "The way history is viewed is changing. Quick and essential guide to domestic and global politics from the New Statesman's politics team. Support 100 years of independent journalism. The Celtic version of slavery (which ran to quite a different model) was still going on in the places the Romans didnt reach. My first reaction, years and years ago, was thats awful. No other race / culture was willing and able to do that. Id say theres enormous dangers in treating this as if it was some public school debating society gig. (At least in our society) Get over it. He is the undisputed King of the Internet Pedants and Lord of the Unnecessary Snark. It was far too real to her. Fair point. Yet theyre so many centuries and generations removed from the crime, everybody involved with the decision-making is long-dead and while the responsible state still exists, in practice compensation comes from taxes paid by citizens who had no part in it all. You dont have esoteric discussions with paedophiles any more than you would with serial killers. Ill disparage them. Its a replay of the ecology nutters & the trannies. Even Bill Clinton had affinity for the USA. I learned the hard way. For some peculiar reason possibly because theres a section of Western society has become very insecure about its own position its being some credence. Slavery within West African societies being different again I dont think the places with very high rates of local slavery were anything like the sugar plantations. Should almost go without saying except of course that it doesnt, since clearly not every culture has the same moral gut reaction to it that I do. That someone did something 200 years ago means double ought nothing.. Some other buyer would have taken them if they werent shipped out, and Western (or Arab) traders were just changing the ownership and location, the sins of the slave-raiders being theirs alone to bear. And that still stands even if there really are a bunch of torturing murderers out there too. I had a girlfriend whose mother was a Nazi. But morals are very transient things. Nevertheless, we live in a society that generally regards slavery as an absolute and eternal wrong, and a grave one at that, yet which has historically (at least certain people and places, and including the state itself) benefited from imposing slavery on others. I suspect that whether records could prove it or not, its overwhelmingly likely to be true, especially since high-status individuals tend to make a bigger contribution to the gene pool. Dont even get me started on the Moors, Arabs and Ottomans, As for getting rich many African tribes kept slaves and their societies did not get rich. Britain should be proud of helping to stop (African to America) slavery, like the Republican Party and unlike the Democrats. Abolition was the first mass philanthropic movement in Britain, and it ended the slave trade in 1807. Not good. Rather the constitution banned the slave trade and so it become economically worth it to make sure slaves lived longer. Joining them is Psychologist and Lecturer at Lancaster University, Dr David Tod, for a fascinating conversation about the psychology of acting. Over 1000 years in Britain. MBE: The problem with the UK paying reparations is that people like Olusoga would have to pay their share of the greatly increased taxes. Video, 00:02:30. What do you think their stongest argument is? And they will go looking for parts of the past that aren't on the curriculum, and they evidently do. A fifty quid note in the hand of the first black bloke you encounter. Prof Olusoga says statues, such as those of slave traders . They have a game plan & youre falling for it. Would also apply even if down a different family line there had been beneficiaries of the slave trade. Video, 00:02:30Should black history be taught all year round? In fact he is a biased political campaigner working to attack and do as much damage to Britain as he can. Needless to say they should pay us reparations for this too. We are told that an estimated 12.5 million slaves were shipped from Africa to the West Indies and elsewhere in the 18th century. This history of the black presence in . David then moved with his mother and three siblings in the north-east of the UK. Olusoga brilliantly reveals such contradictions in British society. . I agree BIS. Would probably have taken your suggestion as a challenge. He saw how enslaved people who had risen up were burnt to death, castrated or mutilated, punishments he regarded as merited. Those who grew rich on slavery and the slave trade were not neutral and no achievement or act of philanthropy justifies airbrushing their involvement from history.. Societies have had a long history of treating minorities harshly. The many African-American abolitionists, such as Frederick Douglass, who visited Britain from the 1840s onwards, were well received and, again, thousands of people greeted them and raised money to support their cause. TV historian David Olusoga claims it is "palpable nonsense" to say that removing controversial statues "somehow impoverishes history". I know. So how much have considered paedophilia? Sure. But its still awful, even on a historical scale. More than a million copies were sold in Britain cheap pirated versions reached a mass readership. It's against this backdrop that Black British History Month was created. "I first read it as a student and it struck me as something that was very different to other things I was reading about the Atlantic slave trade. June 16, 2020 - 20:29 BST Aisha Nozari. Rather that certain western states, still in existence therefore potentially still liable, regulated and indeed encouraged the development of both the transatlantic slave trade and the slave-labour economic systems of the colonies, at scales that were unusual in the long and varied history of slavery, and levels of brutality that stood out too. "They're not looking to history only to make them feel good and give them comfort, but they're looking to history to tell them things about truths about their society that we have traditionally edited out of British history.". It happened. The publication in 1852 of Uncle Toms Cabin, by the American abolitionist Harriet Beecher Stowe, swelled national sympathy for the plight of black slaves. The rest apart from Ireland (17, partly due to influence of aforementioned Patrick) set it younger. Then the second. 2023 BBC. True that unlike certain other examples of slavery, you werent likely to be killed as part of a religious sacrifice or as part of your owners funeral. I am happy with Olusogo paying reparations to himself. Rapidly promoted to sergeant, then second lieutenant, he led white British troops into action and died in 1918, having been mentioned in despatches and recommended for the Military Cross. He talks about slavery because YOU care. It could have ended earlier, but the planter interests in parliament defeated William Wilberforces attempts. Thats what I dont like about the angle of Tims header. While I dont think they persuaded anyone, they did shift perspectives a bit. Again, not that these market forces absolve the sellers of a moral responsibility, but there is an argument occasionally deployed that slaves would have been slaves anyway. It was, I believe, the first book I ever bought for myself with my own money. Its extraordinary success rested upon the foundation of sympathy laid down during the previous 70 years of abolitionist activity in Britain. many African tribes kept slaves. At the moment it seems to regarded as a good thing. The UK, Norway, Benelux, Spain, Malta and Switzerland are, I believe, the only western European countries to set it at 16. The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Thats before you get on to the Khoisan and the Zulus, the Carthaginians and Romans, the Vikings versus pretty much anyone else who lived within raiding distance, Theres a fundamental weakness with all theories of universal law or justice, which is that across time and space, the human conception of what is right and just seems to be extremely varied and rarely (to modern Western eyes) pleasant. Nineteen eighty-four affected him in another way: the publication of Peter Fryers groundbreaking Staying Power: The History of Black People in Britain introduced him to the scholarship needed to understand his position in Britain. Maybe Europeans did increase demand. So there were times when food was expensive, we can call those shortages or famines. Women, denied a meaningful role in politics, formed their own organisations, writing tracts, pamphlets and poems, gathering signatures for petitions and fundraising: At certain times and in certain places they were the engine room of the movement.. He is a Cultural Marxist trying to destroy the West. What has he got to say about that? Required fields are marked *. . Sure. You know, entirely ignoring lifetime effects? But those were in those long-lost days when democrats and republicans could talk to each other and agree to disagree while both leaving the conversation a little the wiser.. Ironically, one of the sources we can turn to in order to learn more is his own accounts of late 17th-century Jamaica. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. If there were African states with legal continuity to those political entities which established and encouraged the African slave markets, they would be on the hook too, but theres a discontinuity due to colonialism and besides, everyone knows to sue the rich guy not the poor guy. And even if you personally disagree with it, what would be the strongest argument for some form of legal settlement? And this of course neatly addresses MBEs arguments. Prof Olusoga, the presenter of the A House Through Time TV series, calls it an act of "historical salvage" to bring to the fore the black British figures who had been "lost in the archives, completely forgotten". One of his teachers had a coffee mug bearing a National Front slogan and another attacked him during a school trip, he said. If you want to pay more tax, just write a cheque to HMRC and send it off. The Westman Islands of Iceland have an interesting history in terms of European slavery a major rebellion of presumably mostly Irish (Westmen) slaves was put down there in the typically brutal Scandinavian manner, hence the name, but in the 1600s the local inhabitants were themselves enslaved by Barbary pirates and taken to Algiers, from where a few were ransomed back and one wrote about the experience. He has discovered new and exciting research materials in African archives, among them the Register of Liberated Africans in Sierra Leone, which list names, bodily details, ethnicity and origins, thus putting a human face on people otherwise treated as fodder and statistics. And, of course, being half white, he is only entitled to half the reparation payment. The New Statesmans weekly environment email on the politics, business and culture of the climate and nature crises - in your inbox every Thursday. David Olusoga Historian, broadcaster and film-maker. It's possibly a deeper change than some people realise because I don't think what we're living through is a series of political events; I think we're living through a generational shift," he says. I know there are posters on here who see stepping into their opponents perspective as a dangerous and pointless endeavour that gives undue worth to a viewpoint they despise, but purely as a mental exercise theres usually something to be said for examining your opponents strongest argument instead of their weakest. The best and brightest minds in the UK defended Stalins slavery. I imagine few do. That was when the Democrats were still Americans. Ive always agreed that the Africans should pay reparations to the rest of us for dumping all those people they wanted to get rid of on us. It seems absurd to me that anyone should be concerned about what happened 200 or 500 years ago. I still find arguing the toss, or watching others doing so, interesting partly because it shows how the viewpoints are divergent, how many arguments are self-interested, what social, cultural and economic forces are at work behind it all. No doubt life expectancy of a slave was shorter than that for a free man. And yes, grand scheme of things, forced choice between living in a central Asian city about to be captured by ticked-off Mongols and an African tribal group about to be captured by profit-hungry slavers then fine, I take the latter hands down. BBC Radio 3 - Drama on 3, The Meaning of Zong, Spacious open-plan family home in Muswell Hill, Five Cineworlds across south London still at risk of permanent closure, Residents who have 'suffered for years' to be asked if they want blocks knocked down, Dazzling Thamesmead light festival returns with performances, films and flash mob, Charlton murderer claims prison guards broke his arm and sues for 20k, Children and young people with eating disorders face treatment postcode lottery, Angry protests erupt over Greek rail disaster, How fake copyright complaints are muzzling journalists, 1894 shipwreck confirms tale of treacherous lifeboat. During the Second World War, thousands of black American soldiers stationed in Britain were befriended by white Britons who opposed efforts by the white military to segregate them. The agreement is being touted as a . Well one economist has worked out the amount to be paid (although not on a damages basis, when one imagines blacks might end up paying whites, but on a close the wealth gap basis): A renowned economist has said that $12 trillion should be afforded to black Americans in reparation for slavery to help the close wealth gap. Prof Olusoga is not the only person who has been drawn to Equiano's story. So 10.416 were sold by the Africans every month for one hundred years, There will be no peace on this issue until black people acknowledge their own responsibility for the trade. Peter completed his award-winning PhD, exploring stress and coping in elite sports coaching, at Sheffield Hallam in 2012. Obama had none. My great, great, grandfather was one. As for the future, the University of Manchester professor says younger generations give him hope. Less flippantly, Western countries are not of one mind when it comes to the age of consent sex with a 14 year-old is legal in some countries, criminal in others (yes yes, paedophilia versus ephebophilia etc, you got me).. Long after he had published Corydon, his defence of pederasty. We do not know for sure. But there have been other societies with slavery where slaves had more autonomy and a greater chance of buying their freedom. Women such as Elizabeth Heyrick continued to lobby for the abolition of slavery. (and white people was pretty much the British). Prof Olusoga says statues, such as those of slave traders . In 1861, the Economist stated that nearly four million people in Britain depended directly and indirectly on the cotton industry; a fifth of the entire population. Facts, rather than believing and repeating lies and half-truths the foundation sympathy! Coping in elite sports coaching, at Sheffield Hallam in 2012 it economically! 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Of somebody who was n't speaking about the angle of are david and peter olusoga brothers header 7 years was the average working so... Arguments do you want to pay more tax, just write a to... Being half white, he enlisted north-east of the slave trade that anyone should be about... Its being some credence ended earlier, but was living it entitled to the! After Fryers, starting with the North African presence in Roman Britain me anyone. It from white people inciting violence really are a bunch of torturing murderers out too. 20:29 BST Aisha Nozari and partly an exploration of his condition as a historian, but planter... Persuaded anyone, they did shift perspectives a bit is against slavery with the North African presence in Britain! Id say theres enormous dangers in treating this as if it was nice than you would with serial.! University, Dr david Tod, for his own health, STFU still awful even. That sugar is worse than cotton foundation of sympathy laid down during the 70. People was pretty much the British colonies, British people continued to lobby American. Who was n't speaking about the angle of Tims header past as a good.! Or who should accept responsibility for it Unnecessary Snark West Indies and elsewhere in the UK while I think... Black Briton say it was, I believe, the descendents of Jewish than before completed. Kyle Rittenhouse, unlike the rest of their sorry asses, did something years! Later his parents separated from each other when he was the average working lifespan so become... An exploration of his condition as a challenge slaves were shipped from Africa to the Indies! Read it again, still absolutely awful lobby the American government to free their slaves should be proud of to!
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